How can you say that the old testament never mentions Jesus by name?

.The ‘old testament’ is the Church version and alas often MIStranslation of the Jewish Tanakh.

Jesus is not mentioned anywhere in the Tanakh.

Jews don’t read or study the OT. I therefore can’t say whether the name ‘Jesus’ appears in it or not – but I gather ‘not’ from what my Christian friends tell me.

Please note:  The Tanakh was a complete ‘bible’ for thousands of years BEFORE Jesus was even born. And the original HEBREW Isaiah says NOTHING about Jesus. Why on earth would it? He’s not part of Judaism and never was.

Who hates Christianity more: Atheists or Jews?

False premise on your part.

So where is your proof of any ‘hatred’ on the part of Jews OR Atheists, towards Christianity?

Since when does not agreeing with Christian theology, equal ‘hatred’…?

How can I show that Christians are spiritual Israel?

You can’t, because you’re not.

The Christian bible does not get to REdefine the Jewish covenant with G-d. The Jewish covenant with G-d is precisely that: Jewish.

Christians have their OWN relationship with G-d – be content in that and stop trying to invalidate ours. What you are doing is called ‘replacement theology’ and it has been the cause of much anti Jewish sentiment through the ages.

Jews and Christians each have their own, special connection to G-d.

hi,How many non jewish friends do you have? Whats your opinions of Muslims? And what is your opinion of Christians?

I judge people on their character, as opposed to their faith, but since you ask….

I know that there are millions and millions of lovely, peaceful, honourable Muslims. But I long to see them marching through the capitals of the world, protesting Islamic terrorism – just as millions of Muslims round the world marched protesting the Mohammed cartoons.

I worry about Islam. It scares me. (how’s that for an honest answer?!). I’m aware that the Quran urges all Muslims to wage Jihad against ‘infidels’ and also to establish Sharia Law in all NON Muslims nations. I see concession after concession being made to British Muslims and it’s exasperating. When Geert Wilders was banned from the UK purely because Muslims threatened to riot, I was FURIOUS.

Christians:

I grew up with most of my closest friends being Christians; several were Roman Catholics, and I’ve always found them to be normal, decent folk; some great, some not, just like you find in all faiths!

The ONLY problem I have is with the evangelical Christians who pose as ‘messianic jews’. That is an appalling deception and I will and do speak out about it vocally.

Hope that answers your post 🙂

note: Judaism doesn’t claim to be the ‘only’ path to G-d. Just ONE path. We believe all humans are equally G-d’s children.

How is Judaisms Adam and Eve diff from christian Adam and Eve? I heard there was a Lilith that wanted to be equal in the bedroom

Lillith is just mentioned in some Jewish folklore, that’s all. She is not part of Judaism. We talk of the same Adam and Eve as Christianity; the only difference is that Judaism does not have any idea of ‘original sin’. We don’t believe that the mistakes made by Adam and Eve are carried through to all future generations. Many Jews regard Beresheet (Genesis) as metaphor.

If a person accepts Jesus as messiah, but doesn’t believe he was ‘god’, can they be Jewish?

In a word: no.

If they start to accept Jesus as ‘messiah’, that means they are embracing Christian ideology. That is their right – of course it is. But they can’t then claim to be practising ‘judaism’. To accept Jesus – or anyone – as maschiach WHILE our prophecies are not fulfilled, would be in violation of Jewish beliefs, yes.

Because of course the ideology surrounding Jesus is also that his death ‘atoned’ for the sins of mankind. This violates Torah. Torah states that no person can ever die for the sins of another human being. We are each responsible for our own sins.

Is it true that Jews are the children of the devil? John 8:44-Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do… John 8:47-He that is God hearth God’s words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God. John 10:26-But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto thou. These are just a few what do you think?

No. Of course not.

But it’s true that the Christian  scriptures do say some horrendous things about us which have resulted in centuries of ongoing anti semitism.

Is the ‘suffering servant’ in Isaiah 53 a reference to Jesus?

No of course not. Isaiah is from the Jewish scriptures, the Tanakh. There is nothing in the Tanakh about Jesus. They were written thousands of years BEFORE Jesus was even born. Jesus does not feature in Judaism. So why on earth would he appear in the Tanakh? That’s about as logical as me claiming Mohammed is mentioned in the ‘new testament’!

If you read the WHOLE of Isaiah, without the page breaks that the Church added when it created the ‘old testament’, you will see that the suffering servant is ISRAEL. It is named as ISRAEL over, and over and over and over:
saiah 41:8, “But you, Israel, My servant, Jacob, whom I have chosen, seed of Abraham my friend”
Isaiah 44:1 “But hear, now, O Jacob My servant, Israel whom I have chosen!”
Isaiah 44:21 “Remember these things, O Jacob for you, O Israel, are My servant”
Isaiah 49:3 “And he said to me, “You are My servant, Israel in whom I glory.””

– Because Isaiah identifies the servant previously as Israel we know that references to the servant (such as those found in Isaiah 52 & 53) are not references to Jesus.

————————————–…

And even if Christianity tries to ignore what the original Hebrew says, it STILL can’t be about Jesus:

Isaiah 52:14 states, “So marred was his appearance, unlike that of a man, his form, beyond human semblance”

-Even though Jesus was whipped and crucified, his form was not marred beyond human semblance. He still resembled a human being, and his form was still like that of a man. Jesus doesn’t fit.

Isaiah 53:4 states, “Yet it was our sickness that he was bearing, our suffering that he endured, we accounted him plagued, smitten and affected by God.”

Isaiah 53:3 contains, “A man of suffering, familiar with disease.”

Isaiah 53:10 states, “But the Lord chose to crush him by disease”

-Now, these passages tell us that the suffering servant being described was not only familiar with disease, but also afflicted with it, and crushed by it. It may be argued that Jesus was familiar with disease; however, he was not crushed by disease.

And no, disease does not mean sin or any other metaphorical interpretation. The historical context confirms this, early Jewish sources confirm this – it refers to leprosy.
“The Rabbis said: His name is ‘the leper scholar,’ as it is written, Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him a leper, smitten of God, and afflicted.” (Sanh. 98b)
Jesus was no leper. He wasn’t smitten, afflicted, plagued, crushed by disease. Jesus doesn’t fit.

Isaiah 53:10 also states, “That, if he made himself an offering for guilt, he might see offspring and have long life”

-Jesus made a guilt offering? This is recorded nowhere. He had offspring? The gospels don’t mention this, rather Christian tradition teaches that he had no wife or children. He had a long life? He lived to his mid-30s. Jesus just doesn’t fit.

Are there many differences between the Jewish Tanakh and the old testament?

Yep, sure are. That said, some versions of the OT are really good. But others are far less accurate.

Here are some of the discrepancies.

1. Zechariah 12:10 − The Hebrew Tanakh: “and they shall look upon me whom they have stabbed/ thrust through [with swords”)

The King James Version of Zechariah changes one word [stabbed] to “pierced.”

BUT John 19:37 (New Testament) misquotes Zechariah to change the entire meaning by saying, “They shall look on him (instead of ME) whom they pierced.”

2. Isaiah 7:14 − The Hebrew Tanakh says “Therefore, the Lord, of His own, shall give you a sign; behold, the young woman (alma) is with child, and she will bear a son and she shall call his name Immanuel.”

**Take note, this was written in the present tense.

But the Greek Septuagint changed “alma,” saying “Behold, a virgin shall be with child and shall bear a son, and they shall call his name Immanuel” (Matthew 1:22-23). The church changed the entire verse from present to FUTURE tense and then went further to change the Hebrew alma, meaning a young woman to virgin.

3. Isaiah 53:10 − The Hebrew Tanakh says “And the Lord wished to crush him, He made him ill; if his soul makes itself restitution (acknowledge guilt) he shall see children, he shall prolong his days and God’s purpose shall prosper in his hand.”

But the KJV says:: “Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he had put him to grief: when thou shall make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand”..

4. Psalm 16:9-10 − (KJV) “Therefore my heart is glad and my glory rejoiceth: my flesh also shall rest in hope. (10) For thou will not leave my soul in hell, neither will you suffer thine Holy One to see corruption”. Why not continue to the next verse? Christians can not because David wasn’t talking about Jesus; David was talking about himself. (Psalm 16:11) “You will show me the path of life, in your presence is fullness of joy; at your right hand there are pleasures for evermore.”

Psalm 16:9-10 in the Hebrew Tanakh says “Therefore, my heart rejoiced and my soul was glad; even my flesh shall dwell in safety. (10) For You shall not forsake my soul to the grave; You shall not allow Your pious one to see the pit.”

Where is ‘Hell’, and ‘Corruption’ as the New Testament stated? It did not exist! .

The Hebrew translation of Psalm 16:10 tells of David again talking to God, rejoicing that God will not forsake his soul to the grave. While David is alive he will dwell in safety because God will protect his flesh from injury, and G-d will show him the way. Does verse 11 relate to Jesus? If Jesus is part of the godhead, as Christians say, how can G-d show him the way?

5. Isaiah 9:5 − The Hebrew Tanakh reads: “For a child has been born to us, a son has been given us and authority has settled on his shoulders. He has been named “The Mighty G-d” Isaiah was referring to King Hezekiah, son of Ahaz.

Again, in an attempt to insert a Jesus prophecy, the KJV changed the tense from the present to the future, making it, “A child is born, a son is given and the government shall be upon his shoulder and his name shall be called Wonderful Counselor, the Mighty G-d”. [In Hebrew Hezekiah means “the mighty G-d.”]

6. In John, the New Testament author tries to make Jesus as the perfect sacrificial lamb of God (who then supposedly takes away the sins of the world) and relate this to the Jewish Passover. [John’s writings have Jesus die on Passover, while the other Gospel authors say he died the day after.] John 19:32-36 tells of soldiers breaking the legs of the crucifixion victims to hasten their deaths, yet sparing Jesus because he was already dead. To this end the author of John supposedly quotes Hebrew Scripture saying, “For these things were done, that the Scripture should be fulfilled, a bone of him shall not be broken.” The New Testament “fulfilled prophecy” supposedly refers to Exodus 12:46; Numbers 9:12 and to Psalms 34:20.

Notice how conveniently John changed the entire meaning by simply changing of Exodus 12:46 by changing one word: “it” to “him.” Exodus 12:46 refers to the PASSOVER-offering, “…and you shall not break a bone in it (the animal).”

Numbers 9:12 again refer to the PASSOVER-offering, “…nor shall they break a bone of it”. Again, by changing one word, the original message is lost.

Psalms 34:20 refers to David saying no one becomes truly righteous and great without his share of mishaps,
CONTINUATION:He guards all his bones, even one of them was not broken.” Nothing ever shows that this Psalm was intended as prophetic, certainly not applying to the future fictitious character of Jesus.

(NOTE: Jesus would have been disqualified as a Passover ‘sacrifice’ because the female lamb had to be “without blemish.” Jesus was wounded, whipped and mutilated.)

7. Psalm 2: 11-12. By simply leaving off one Aramaic word, Christians altered the entire verse. The KJV reads, “Serve the Lord with fear and rejoice with trembling. Kiss the Son, lest he be angry and you perish from the way”

The original Hebrew Tanakh records the verses as “Do homage in purity (nash-ku bar) lest He be angry and you perish”. The meaning of the Hebrew word “bar” is pure or clear. Yes, in Aramaic, the word “bar” does mean son, but it is used only as a combination of two words – SON OF. If in Aramaic, the author wanted to mean just the son, he would have used the phrase “ber’a with the letter alef at the end. (Psalm 2:11-12).

8. Matthew 2:23 − “And he (Jesus) came and dwelt in a city called Nazareth: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophets”

Which prophets said that?

According to scholars, rabbis and historians, the city of Nazareth did not exist during the writings of Hebrew Scriptures.

The word “Nazareth” does not appear anywhere in Hebrew Scriptures. This is even verified by the New Testament Concordance!

Therefore, Nazareth and Nazarene are Christian words, not Hebrew words. Nazareth is not mentioned in non-Christian sources until the third or fourth century.

Nazarites are not a sect. but rather it is an individual oath taken by a person to be in effect for a time period. During this time the person is not allowed to cut their hair, go near a corpse, eat grapes or drink wine. Afterward he must bring special offerings to the Beith Hamikdash and shave his hair.

9. Psalm 22:16 from the Hebrew Tanakh when correctly translated reads “They surrounded my hands and feet like a lion” (the word “ka’ari clearly means like a lion, as evident from its use in Isaiah 38:13 and other writings, even in the KJV).

David was pursued by his enemies and often referred to them as “lions” (see Psalms 7 & 17).

Yet, when read out of context the KJV dmistranslates: “They pierced my hands and feet.” The passage was altered to indicate Jesus.

10. Using Isaiah 59:20, Christians again misquote Hebrew Scripture. The New Testament in Romans 11:26, has Paul supposedly saying, “And so all Israel shall be saved; as it is written. There shall come out of Zion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob.”

The Tanakh recorded a different event. Isaiah:“A redeemer will come to Zion, and to those of Jacob who repent from willful sin. Is it in or out of Jerusalem? Just change “to Zion” to “out of Zion.”

11. Hosea 6:2 − The Christian Bible has the authoress of Luke (24:46-47) telling that Jesus rose on the Third Day: “Thus it is written, and thus it behooved Christ to suffer and to rise from the dead the third day and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.” This could have only been designed to satisfy a prophecy in Hosea 6:2. The New Testament has Paul writing in I Corinthians, “and Jesus was buried and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures.” Further 1 Corinthians 15:4.says “After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up and we shall live in his sight.” Which Hebrew Scriptures are these authors talking about?

As usual, the source documents, The Hebrew Scriptures, say something entirely different:

Hosea 6:1-2 “They will say, Come let us return to God for He (God) has mangled us and He (God) will heal us; He (God) has smitten and He (God) will bandage us. He (God) will heal us after two days; on the third day He (God) will raise us up and we will live before Him. ‘We’ refers to the nation of Israel.

The last verse in Chapter 5 sets the scene and explains the situation very clearly: “I (God) will go, I will return to My place until they will acknowledge their guilt and seek My face; in their distress they will seek Me (Hosea 5:15). Hosea explains in verse 5 that God sent a clear-cut message to Israel through My prophets; you heard and refused to repent, so My offer resulted in your death sentence. How could I vindicate you after such defiance? Then Hosea explains: “Come let us return to God”!

Does this refer to Jesus?

Answer: No.

And a few more…

Psalm 2:11-12. This passage is cited often by Christians seeking to prove the Trinity. In the King James Bible, it reads:
“Serve the L-rd with fear, and rejoice with trembling. Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.”

But the verse is mistranslated. The word rendered “the Son” is “bar”. In Hebrew, the word means “pure” and is correctly translated in Psalm 24 (“clean hands and a pure heart”).

Where in the old testament does it say that the messiah will return?

The OT is the Christian and somewhat Christianised version of the Jewish Tanakh.

Nowhere in the Tanakh does it say that the Jewish maschiach will come ‘twice’. How could he? He’s a normal mortal. Normal mortals live normal, mortal lives.

The idea of the ‘second coming’ is purely Christian and one might be tempted to think it was developed to explain how it was that Jesus failed to fulfill the 23 Jewish messianic prophecies before the Romans killed him.